| Scotland scraps peak rail fares - will the rest of the UK follow? (Sep 2025) Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 18:49, 1st September 2025 |     |
From the BBC:
Train passengers no longer have to pay higher prices for peak time tickets on ScotRail, raising the question over whether the rest of the UK could follow suit.
While some passengers told the BBC they would welcome the prospect of cheaper tickets, experts are divided over whether it could push prices up overall or result in overcrowded carriages.
The peak/off-peak system is designed to discourage passengers from getting on busier trains, by making it more expensive to travel during the commuter rush before 9am and between 5pm and 7pm.
However, the pandemic working from home and rail usage has not yet returned to pre-Covid levels so peak travel times are less busy than they used to be.
David Ross, chief operating officer at ScotRail - which is owned by the Scottish government - told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that the shift meant it could scrap peak charges as "there's plenty of capacity for people to travel with us".
Unlike the Scottish system, English railways are run by a mix of publicly-owned firms and private contractors which the government has pledged to nationalise as their contracts end.
Ticket prices are set by the Department for Transport (DfT) so if the government wanted to scrap peak fares across England it could.
London North Eastern Railway (LNER), which is run by the government, is experimenting with the removal of off-peak charges across parts of its network, external - with the pilot due to end on 7 September.
The DfT has not said whether or not it would try removing off-peak charges across the whole English network, but it has said it wants to reform the way tickets are priced as it nationalises the system.
"We know the current labyrinth of fares and prices can be confusing, which is why we want to make it easier for passengers to find the right ticket for their journey," a transport spokesperson said.
Meanwhile, Transport for Wales (TfW) and Translink operate the Welsh and Northern Irish railways and are run by their devolved governments.
The BBC has approached both TfW and Translink for comment.
ScotRail's move has reduced prices - an anytime day return ticket from Glasgow to Edinburgh has gone from £32.60 to £16.80. ScotRail's Ross said this means "passenger journeys will increase and over time it will pay for itself", but rail experts are divided.
If passenger numbers remain the same ticket prices may need to go up overall to make up for the lost revenue, some have warned. The other issue is what scrapping off-peak would mean for some already overcrowded routes.
"Clearly, the rush hour trains are already packed. And if you remove the disincentive to travel, it would mean more would want to travel on those trains," said Bruce Williamson from campaign group Railfuture. As such, he said any removal of peak charges would need to come alongside investment in increasing capacity of the rail network - something which would cost the government money.
(BBC News article continues)
| Re: Scotland scraps peak rail fares - will the rest of the UK follow? (Sep 2025) Posted by grahame at 19:08, 1st September 2025 | |
From my inbox
I note that all the examples are middle distance ones ... perhaps the old peak fare was embarrassing.
| Re: Scotland scraps peak rail fares - will the rest of the UK follow? (Sep 2025) Posted by Mark A at 20:46, 1st September 2025 | |
From the BBC:
**snip**
"Clearly, the rush hour trains are already packed. And if you remove the disincentive to travel, it would mean more would want to travel on those trains," said Bruce Williamson from campaign group Railfuture.
(BBC News article continues)
**snip**
"Clearly, the rush hour trains are already packed. And if you remove the disincentive to travel, it would mean more would want to travel on those trains," said Bruce Williamson from campaign group Railfuture.
(BBC News article continues)
'Packed weekday peak trains' ... a bit of an overgeneralisation and has been for some time - and now, has a fragrant whiff, yes?
Mark
| Re: Scotland scraps peak rail fares - will the rest of the UK follow? (Sep 2025) Posted by Hafren at 21:19, 1st September 2025 | |
Two examples:
(1) Evening trains out of Cardiff are often very busy. But I think it's just as much leisure travellers as commuters. That was always the case to an extent - there was a 4pm 'first peak' that was a mix of early-finishers and shoppers etc. But I get the impression that the composition of the overall peak has shifted a bit between work and leisure travellers. Probably not crowded enough to make it worth pricing people off them - often less busy after a few stops. (E.g. 1751 Swanline - has standing pax from CDF, but by Bridgend has plenty of seats available.)
(2) Evening peak out of Paddington often feels quite lightly-loaded. Note I'm mainly familiar with longer-distance journeys; locals may differ! Also I'll mainly be travelling on days where commuter load may be lighter e.g. it's often a Friday or in the holidays if I'm making a long journey. I sometimes just miss the off-peak and use a complex split (typically involving Didcot, which narrows options a bit) to make the peak fare palatable, although it's still much more than I'd like to pay! And it turns out I sort of like doing it this way; the trains I just miss are often busy, but there are some nice options in the peak that are (IMX) quite lightly loaded. Very much a case of people being priced out for no good reason - and with the side effect of making first & last off-peak trains irritatingly busy!
I do wonder if the BBC misses the point when saying peak fares are about managing loading. I'd have thought the business case would be extracting more revenue from business travellers who can bear a higher fare. Which is why I think some sort of morning peak fare is perhaps beneficial for the railway, but evening peaks just add unnecessary complexity. Perhaps the way to offset the loss would be some sort of improved first class offering (where appropriate) which can extract that revenue in an 'optional' rather than 'pricing-out' way. It could be said that TfW and Chiltern are doing this.
| Re: Scotland scraps peak rail fares - will the rest of the UK follow? (Sep 2025) Posted by broadgage at 22:52, 1st September 2025 | |
I would support higher fares for peak travel, except for very short local journeys.
Providing peak capacity is expensive, and in my view, those who travel in the peaks should contribute to these costs. Having provided capacity, the costs of using this capacity in the off peak are limited.
Therefore off peak fares could reasonably be significantly lower.
I have previously suggested a greatly simplified fares structure, with only three different fares for any journey.
PEAK FARE-- payable for trains that are reasonably expected to be very busy.
SUPER BARGAIN-- payable for trains expected to be very little used, mainly very early morning or late night services.
OFF PEAK-- applies to trains not falling into the above.
