Ticket Office Closure Consultation

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66097850?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA

Train companies are planning to press ahead with mass closures of ticket offices across England.
Industry bosses are expected to confirm a public consultation on the gradual closures of hundreds of ticket kiosks over the next three years on Wednesday.
Some will remain in large stations, but elsewhere staff will be on concourses to sell tickets, offer travel advice and help people with accessibility.
Rail unions are opposed to the plans and have warned of further strikes.
About three out of every five stations has a ticket office.
The move to begin a consultation on the future of ticket offices has been made by the Rail Delivery Group (RDG), which represents train companies, after talks with the RMT union failed to reach an agreement.

BBC Radio stations have been lining up voxpops for 11am onwards tomorrow.....

85% of tickets purchased from ticket offices in 1995, 12% in 2023.

This is going to be a very hard argument for the Unions to win on any level.

Accessibility is the strongest argument against.

: TaplowGreen

85% of tickets purchased from ticket offices in 1995, 12% in 2023.

This is going to be a very hard argument for the Unions to win on any level.

One statistic that is conveniently forgotten is the significant number of tickets purchased online or at a TVM that are purchased incorrectly and corrected at the ticket office ("I bought a single but meant to buy a return, can you change it please?").

What is that statistic please?

I have probably said this before, but I really don't understand the reasoning for the proposed closure of ticket offices. It says the staff would instead be on concourses, selling tickets, offering advice and help with accessibility. All of those can, and are, done by staff in the ticket offices, most of which are just staffed by one person at a time in the smaller town stations that will undoubtedly be the ones that are closed. So what is the saving being made? The ticket office room will still exist, and in most cases can't really be used for other purposes. The staff will still exist, doing the same job, but in less comfortable working conditions.

I'm trying to imagine how closing the ticket office in stations like Trowbridge or Bradford-on-Avon saves the train company any substantial outgoings, and how it helps passengers in any way at all.

: ChrisB

What is that statistic please?

I don't think any 'official' statistic is recorded, but anecdotal evidence from a couple of my local ticket offices suggest that as many as 15-20% of ticket office conversations result in either a ticket being changed or the customer referred back to the online retailer.

TVMs do not sell the full range of tickets, and if you can purchase on line, often 7 days notice is required plus a postage fee.

: TaplowGreen

85% of tickets purchased from ticket offices in 1995, 12% in 2023.

This is going to be a very hard argument for the Unions to win on any level.

12% is still a lot of tickets and revenue, has anybody asked these passengers why they don't use online or ticket machines?

And I would hazard a guess that some of them will never use online or ticket machines so are the railways prepared to lose more revenue? and will that revenue be greater than any 'cost saving'?

This would also mean that you could no longer buy a ticket with cash, what about children and others who don't have a debit card?

Confirmed by Sky News at 1030. Closures spread over 3 years

https://news.sky.com/story/nearly-every-railway-ticket-office-in-england-set-to-close-under-new-plans-12915187

And the Press release from the RDG is here

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/proposals-to-update-the-railway-for-how-passengers-use-it-today

My thoughts with cuts and pastings from the BBC report...

Train companies are pressing ahead with plans to close hundreds of station ticket offices across England over the next three years.

There's a general election halfway through that timescale so what's the chance something could appear in certain party's manifestos (not that any of those are worth the paper they're printed on).

A 21-day public consultation has been launched to collect passengers' views.

I hesitate to suggest but like most consultations, any views will quietly be ignored

"Our proposals would mean more staff on hand to give face-to-face help with a much wider range of support, from journey planning, to finding the right ticket and helping those with accessibility needs."

The RDG said across the network as a whole there would be more staff available than there are today

There will not be any more staff giving face-to-face help for journey planning or finding the right ticket because they are already doing that. Assisting with accessibilty needs could, though, benefit from more flexible staffing arrangements but I cannot see TOCs increasing staffing levels overall.
I would argue that over time numbers would actually fall

Under the plans, if a passenger was unable to purchase a ticket, they would be able to buy one during the journey, at a ticket office en-route or at their destination, the RDG said.

"...at a Ticket office en-route or at their destination"

Haven't they just proposed to close most of them?

I’m unable to verify the source, but I’ve seen this spreadsheet posted today covering current/proposed head counts at GWR stations. A third of staff going…there’s where your savings are coming from!

It’s no surprise the unions will fight this with whatever might they still have, even if, I think we all agree, some ticket offices should close.

From the GWR FAQs on closures....

Two-thirds – 60% – of GWR stations don’t have staff or a ticket office, with 48% of stations staffed on a part-time basis.

Interesting percentages there

And so what % are fully staffed then?

SWR have published their proposals for each station. Some things are spelled out - notably (1) all ticket offices will close but (2) no stations become newly unstaffed - but not (1) what they mean by "colleagues with full retailing capacity and (2) what happens to staff numbers.

This is the relevant announcement

South Western Railway (SWR) is launching a consultation on a station change proposal, with new arrangements at 153 of SWR’s 190 stations to be consulted on.

The proposed changes include creating a single team of colleagues at each station, who will work together to help customers with different aspects of their train travel from journey planning to ticket purchasing.

The proposals would mean the closure of all ticket offices, but more face-to-face support for customers, greater visibility of colleagues throughout stations, and a higher proportion of colleagues trained to support customers with their retail choices.

The more detailed page linked from there does not say much more, but there is a presentation/document listing all stations and their category 1-4.

For their 24 highest service level (category 1) stations they do refer to "interim additional retailing facilities that will be able to provide the ticket types that customer are unable to purchase online or via ticket vending machines". I guess that means keeping ticket offices open (initially at least) or a staff member with a machine, as well as helpng with TVMs of course.

Proposals for GWR stations can be found here https://www.gwr.com/haveyoursay

A quick glance at my local station Didcot Parkway

Sales through ticket office 25%
Sales through TVM 7%
Sales online 67%

Looking at those figures I would suggest that the public wants to use ticket offices and that it is TVM's that are not required and therefore should be closed down.:-)

So is the 12% figure disingenuous in that it includes stations with no ticket offices, I wonder what the percentage of tickets sales is at stations with ticket offices?

Details of each station.....

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/Changes-to-Ticket-Retailing-at-GWR-Stations-v2.pdf

A brief run through does seem to show that ALL Ticket Offices will close by end of 2024

: old original

Details of each station.....

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/Changes-to-Ticket-Retailing-at-GWR-Stations-v2.pdf

A brief run through does seem to show that ALL Ticket Offices will close by end of 2024

Interesting comment at the bottom of each notice..........

*- Date changes to Advance Purchase tickets will not be possible after windows are closed

I guess that will ultimately mean that NO Advance tickets will be sold 'at the station'

: PhilWakely

: old original

Details of each station.....

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/Changes-to-Ticket-Retailing-at-GWR-Stations-v2.pdf

A brief run through does seem to show that ALL Ticket Offices will close by end of 2024

Interesting comment at the bottom of each notice..........

*- Date changes to Advance Purchase tickets will not be possible after windows are closed

I guess that will ultimately mean that NO Advance tickets will be sold 'at the station'

..along with railcards, seasons, almost anything which isn't a walk up type ticket.
Admittedly it's pure speculation at the moment but I can't see much good coming out of all this.

What to make of this?

The very brief announcement on RDG’s website refers to “the closure of a number of ticket offices across the network”, not most or all as widely touted (or are they waiting to see the outcome of the consultation before deciding how far to go?). Industry Insider’s spreadsheet extract indicates that no station in the eastern area of GWR will become un-manned. So “staff move out from behind the glass” appears to be the main change for smaller stations (at least in “our” part of the world, speaking as a forum member from the Thames valley), with most redundancies actually being at the large stations. This also seems to be the case from the SWR information that Stuving has directed us to.

I think Froome’s post yesterday sums the situation up well, but misses an important point. Currently, everyone knows that at a station with just one person on duty, they can be found in the ticket office, which almost always can be found near the main entrance to the station. If that member of staff has to wander around the station – likely to be at least two platforms, sometimes more. So if you arrive at Pangbourne (for example), you will have to go out on the up platform, check both ends, and if there’s non-one there, scuttle down the stairs and up again for the down platform, and repeat the exercise there. If the member of staff on duty was taking a comfort break when you arrived, you might emerge on the down platform just to see him (or her) emerge on the platform you have just left!
This will make it no easier for the public to use the railway, quite the opposite, and for those such as the elderly or disabled, it makes matters worse.

This is (bluntly) a very poorly thought-out proposal. By all means up-skill the station staff to be able to deal with more than just ticket sales (as many seem to, already). As Industry Insider has said, inevitably reduced ticket revenues and changing ticket-buying habits mean that staff cuts are likely, but let’s hope this silly idea (moving staff out of ticket offices on smaller stations) will be dropped.

The promotional video to which there is a link behind the “other cases” button in the text of the RDG announcement is not really relevant – it features two multi-staffed stations (Newbury and Green Park) – with fixed desks that are manned! (Doh!). If removing screens is the key, then remove them. However, if you are the only staff member on duty, is it unreasonable to suggest that a degree of protection is appropriate?

There’s a clear message that RDG is partly responding to union intransigence on other issues. I have some sympathy with this. Here’s an idea – let’s at last move to all trains having driver-operated doors, so on-board passenger facing staff are freed up to spend more time dealing the with public, selling tickets, checking them and dealing with queries. Having spent 20-odd years commuting down the North Downs line, and seeing the TMs constantly having to abandon their progress through the train to deal with the doors at each station, there’s one blindly obvious way the railway industry can make better use of its staff’s time looking after the travelling public.

Given that Bristol TM, Paddington, Reading, Oxford have no ticket offices beyond Decemeber 2024, does that mean that there will be no ticket offices on GWR from that date?

What worries me is 'special events' - such as Teignmouth Air Show. Imagine the chaos at the gateline with hundreds of customers wanting to purchase tickets. I understand that, throughout a 9-hour day last Saturday at Newton Abbot, an average of one ticket every 35 seconds was issued through the two windows that were opened. The vast majority of these sales were to 'once-in-a-while travellers' (usually families) who did not know about Groupsave. Several railcards were also sold off the back of these sales.

: eightonedee

If that member of staff has to wander around the station – likely to be at least two platforms, sometimes more. So if you arrive at Pangbourne (for example), you will have to go out on the up platform, check both ends, and if there’s non-one there, scuttle down the stairs and up again for the down platform, and repeat the exercise there. If the member of staff on duty was taking a comfort break when you arrived, you might emerge on the down platform just to see him (or her) emerge on the platform you have just left!
This will make it no easier for the public to use the railway, quite the opposite, and for those such as the elderly or disabled, it makes matters worse.

This is (bluntly) a very poorly thought-out proposal.

Hmmm. poorly thought out assumption, I think. Who said they have to "wander around the station"?

If a passenger needs/wants/asks for assistance, then that staff member may be with another custmer - but any business will want their 'customer-facing' staff in front of their customers, where customers are to be found, in station booking halls generally. So not difficult to find unless with other customers

: ray951

Given that Bristol TM, Paddington, Reading, Oxford have no ticket offices beyond Decemeber 2024, does that mean that there will be no ticket offices on GWR from that date?

Customer Hubs at the larger stations will retail those items not available from TVMs or online. I would expect one of these at each of those you mention

If a passenger needs/wants/asks for assistance, then that staff member may be with another custmer - but any business will want their 'customer-facing' staff in front of their customers, where customers are to be found, in station booking halls generally. So not difficult to find unless with other customers

So - you close and lock the old ticket office and the staff member stands outside? The implication of "Staff would move out of ticket offices and on station platforms, concourses and ticket halls, adopting new ‘customer help’ roles already in place in many parts of the railway" is that they are mobile!

Yes, but all homing back to a start point - the customers....

Interesting newly opened Reading Green Park was specified with (and keeps seven staff) while the other intermediate stations on the line only have one currently.

Details of SWR's proposals can be read/commented on in this seperate thread:
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=27648.0

This is a DfT (Government) driven agenda, it was "successfully" done on LUL so they see no reason why it cannot be implemented on the National network. Eventually I can see a time when the smaller stations which currently only have part time ticket offices will be totally unstaffed and the larger stations will only have staff at peak times

: ChrisB

: ray951

Given that Bristol TM, Paddington, Reading, Oxford have no ticket offices beyond Decemeber 2024, does that mean that there will be no ticket offices on GWR from that date?

Customer Hubs at the larger stations will retail those items not available from TVMs or online. I would expect one of these at each of those you mention

Will they?.
As PhilWakely has already pointed out above, there is the line in GWR's document which states...
"Date changes to Advance Purchase tickets will not be possible after windows are closed"
If they can't do that what else won't they do..

: eightonedee

If a passenger needs/wants/asks for assistance, then that staff member may be with another custmer - but any business will want their 'customer-facing' staff in front of their customers, where customers are to be found, in station booking halls generally. So not difficult to find unless with other customers

So - you close and lock the old ticket office and the staff member stands outside? The implication of "Staff would move out of ticket offices and on station platforms, concourses and ticket halls, adopting new ‘customer help’ roles already in place in many parts of the railway" is that they are mobile!

..also specifically with single manned stations, where the staff occupy the office between trains, the ticket issuing machine and cash is retained in the office. The staff member goes out & deals with passenger assistance and despatch.
When the office gets closed we presume the staff member could then be carrying a machine & cash with them, which itself is a safety & security issue and what to do with them when the time comes to put the ramp out for a wheelchair, back to the office to lock them away? What waste of time

Which single-manned stations operate a ticket office currently & dispatch trains?

Booking Office staff aren't allowed out currently without securing all monies within their safe.

What is annoying me is that each TOC appears to have produced documents with different info.

SWR have classified their stations into groups & determined operating hours for retail staffing, GWR provides a lot of current info but not much going forward except to identify that all their ticket offices will be gone by Dec24, and when staff might be expected out in front of them, and LNER have identified which stations will retain full retail ability & which won't.

LNER twitter quotes

Doncaster, Edinburgh Waverley, Peterborough, London King’s Cross, Newcastle and York where Ticket offices will remain. In future, these will be referred to as Customer Information Centres.

Why can't they all do the same exercise & put out the same info?

Here's the GTR stations retaining 'ticket offices'/full retail

Apologies - just spotted that GWR do show proposed retail opportunity times going forward

: PhilWakely

One statistic that is conveniently forgotten is the significant number of tickets purchased online or at a TVM that are purchased incorrectly and corrected at the ticket office ("I bought a single but meant to buy a return, can you change it please?").

Easily fixed; make tickets amendable under all circumstances via TOC websites and Apps (this functionality is already available with restrictions via the GWR portals) and only sell single tickets (2 singles = a return).

: ChrisB

Which single-manned stations operate a ticket office currently & dispatch trains?

Booking Office staff aren't allowed out currently without securing all monies within their safe.

In Cornwall we have a couple of "one man bands"
Camborne and Par to start with, plus St Erth outside the summer season

We do too on the North Cotswolds, but they're either DOO or guard despatched. No ticket office input at all.

Ticket office staff are currently in an enclosed environment /room protected by a strong glass window for their safety and security, not only for themselves but for the security of sensitive customer transaction details and of course revenue /cash etc.

Many ticket office staff, will, as basically ‘floor walkers’, more easily become vulnerable to verbal and even physical abuse from ‘undesirable‘ customers and the less fit and able will find it hard work staying on their feet for most of their shift.

By all means Railway Management should (again) have the ability for ongoing reviews ( in consultation with local Union reps.) of ticket office staffing levels and hours, as was always done.

Totnes Station - Can there really have been only 6 Rovers/Rangers sold in the last Year.

: ChrisB

We do too on the North Cotswolds, but they're either DOO or guard despatched. No ticket office input at all.

Those stations mentioned in Cornwall are staffed, not by clerical but platform staff who do ticket transactions but are expected to do the full range that you would find in a larger station.

It maybe the case that a lot of services now self despatch but I think the station staff are still expected to deal with passenger assistance issues plus sweeping platforms & cleaning duties. I still have contacts and will clarify if I can

OOOh, this is getting a tad juicy. The ORR has stepped in with a letter to TOCs.....

Jacqui Russell
Head of Consumer Team

TOC MDs; and
TOC accessibility leads
[by email]
5 July 2023

Dear Industry Colleagues

Station ticket office reforms

Operators have today published consultations on proposals to make changes to the responsibilities of station staff and to close ticket offices. I am writing to provide an overview of a number potentially relevant regulatory considerations that may be helpful as you refine your plans, and to formally ask you to provide an initial high level review of your proposals against ORR’s Accessible Travel Policy (ATP) guidance.

Changes to ticket office opening hours

Changes to ticket office opening hours (including closures) are governed by the processes set out in the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement (TSA) and guidance published by the Department for Transport (DfT). Alongside, ORR has a long-term ongoing role in ensuring that passenger interests are protected in key areas, underpinned by licence requirements and consumer law. Under DfT’s guidance, any proposal to close a ticket office is considered to be a major change. Operators must publish details of their proposals, with passengers invited to make representations to Transport Focus (TF) and London TravelWatch (LTW). TF/LTW may then seek amendments to proposals from the operators. Should concerns remain they can raise an objection to the Secretary of State who will make a final decision.

Accessible Travel Policy review

All train and station operators must establish and comply with an ATP as a condition of their licence, setting out their provision for disabled passengers. ATPs must meet the detailed requirements set out in our guidance. While these requirements are particularly relevant to disabled people, such as the provision of assistance to travel, they can equally be applied more widely and, in this context, that includes requirements relating to ticketing and passenger information. The Annex extracts those aspects of the ATP guidance that are potentially relevant to changes to station staffing and ticket offices. To ensure that your ATP remains accurate for passengers and meets the requirements of the ATP guidance we are seeking an initial understanding of the areas where we believe that early engagement on changes will be helpful, including
where we can provide additional clarity or support in this process.

Your response should:
• Provide a high-level summary of the changes that you are proposing to make to ticket offices and station staffing.
• Identify any areas where you anticipate proposing changes to your ATP documents, and where possible outline what those changes would be.
• Identify any other changes that you propose to make at stations to ensure compliance with the ATP guidance, with particular reference to the areas identified in the Annex.

We do not expect to request or receive revised ATP documentation until there is more certainty over the changes that may be implemented. The process for revising ATPs will then follow the usual process. As part of this we will expect you to show how you have sought and considered feedback from local groups, and we will consult with DPTAC, Transport Focus and (where relevant) London TravelWatch where any material changes are proposed.

Please contact David Kimball (david.kimball@orr.gov.uk) if you have any queries. We will be inviting operators to a meeting to clarify ATP requirements and the review process, and to offer the opportunity to explore any questions you may
have. Please submit your response to ATP@orr.gov.uk by Friday 21 July.

I am copying this letter to RDG, DfT, Transport Focus, and London TravelWatch.

Yours sincerely
Jacqui Russell

The annex can be found as part of the pdf of this letter here

Fight!

A first stab.....

To: TicketOffice.GWR@transportfocus.org.uk <ticketoffice.gwr@transportfocus.org.uk>

I OBJECT to the proposed closure and down grading of ticket offices.
1.The fastest way of obtaining a ticket is still from the ticket office.

2. The fastest I can buy a ticket from a machine is 3 minutes. You have to go through the A-Z station finder; select single or returns; add a rail card; authorize payment card; wait for printing.

3. Most stations only have a single ticket machine, so 10 passengers would have to wait 30 minutes +, which is clearly unacceptable.

4. Ticket machines located outside are difficult to use with reflective glare from sunlight.

5. Railrovers / Ranger tickets & other products like some railcards for example cannot be bought from ticket machines. Reservations cannot be made. How does one obtain a photocard & then a monthly or longer season ticket? Other examples currently exist with no proposals as to how they will be solved IN ADVANCE of any closure.
Also unavailable - season replacement, excesses, ticket refunds after disruption & deciding to abandon travel.

6. Not everyone has a smart phone. I do not.

7. This will only encourage ticketless travel, a problem conductors cannot cope with at present on 5 let alone 9 carriage IETs on the North Cotswold Line.

8. GWR do not offer print at home tickets.

9. Not all pre-booked tickets are downloaded from TVM's on arrival at the station and passengers still ask booking office staff to do this. Will the retail staff still be able to do this for customers?

10. How will one find out about specific time restrictions on tickets to enable travel planning or will one just choose to go by car?

Feel free to add to this....

: AMLAG

Ticket office staff are currently in an enclosed environment /room protected by a strong glass window for their safety and security, not only for themselves but for the security of sensitive customer transaction details and of course revenue /cash etc.

Many ticket office staff, will, as basically ‘floor walkers’, more easily become vulnerable to verbal and even physical abuse from ‘undesirable‘ customers and the less fit and able will find it hard work staying on their feet for most of their shift.

By all means Railway Management should (again) have the ability for ongoing reviews ( in consultation with local Union reps.) of ticket office staffing levels and hours, as was always done.

Good point, but I expect it would be dealt with by simply ending cash transactions.

Experience from Friday: I walked to Redland and used the TVM to buy a Super Off-Peak return to Didcot, intending to take the 10:30 from Temple Meads. In fact I arrived there early enough to take the 10:00* but wasn't sure if the SOP was valid on that, so – I asked a member of staff on the platform (who confirmed that yes, it was valid). So in this case, platform good, office not used.

*Red Squirrel might commiserate me that this denied me pasty-eating time!

: Bmblbzzz

Experience from Friday: I walked to Redland and used the TVM to buy a Super Off-Peak return to Didcot, intending to take the 10:30 from Temple Meads. In fact I arrived there early enough to take the 10:00* but wasn't sure if the SOP was valid on that, so – I asked a member of staff on the platform (who confirmed that yes, it was valid). So in this case, platform good, office not used.

*Red Squirrel might commiserate me that this denied me pasty-eating time!

Platform staff were wrong. A Super Off Peak Return from Redland to Didcot Parkway is not valid until 1030 from Bristol Temple Meads. A pasty is cheaper than an excess fare.

There's another good point/lesson there - not only will TO staff need retraining, but the likelihood of platform staff being asked these sort of questions about ticket validity will increase and thus ought to get some retail training/mobile device to assist the giving of a correct answer as well

: JayMac

: Bmblbzzz

Experience from Friday: I walked to Redland and used the TVM to buy a Super Off-Peak return to Didcot, intending to take the 10:30 from Temple Meads. In fact I arrived there early enough to take the 10:00* but wasn't sure if the SOP was valid on that, so – I asked a member of staff on the platform (who confirmed that yes, it was valid). So in this case, platform good, office not used.

*Red Squirrel might commiserate me that this denied me pasty-eating time!

Platform staff were wrong. A Super Off Peak Return from Redland to Didcot Parkway is not valid until 1030 from Bristol Temple Meads. A pasty is cheaper than an excess fare.

Oh. That's what I thought at first. Luckily for me, I didn't encounter a single ticket inspection the whole journey (including the return). And the barriers at DID let me out even though I couldn't have got there except by leaving earlier than 1030.

Perhaps there ought to be more on-train ticket checks? If I'd gone to Cholsey instead, as I'd been considering (my final destination being somewhere between the two), I could have done the whole journey without a single check or barrier.

: ChrisB

There's another good point/lesson there - not only will TO staff need retraining, but the likelihood of platform staff being asked these sort of questions about ticket validity will increase and thus ought to get some retail training/mobile device to assist the giving of a correct answer as well

And a general simplification of fares, restrictions and validities wouldn't hurt either.

Some comments on things said earlier.

Interesting newly opened Reading Green Park was specified with (and keeps seven staff) while the other intermediate stations on the line only have one currently.
If you go down to RGP during the week you get jumped on because they are bored out of their minds with nothing to do. How flexible will the system be to "long term" changes in demand, or will it be a Lidl case of When it is gone it is gone.

what to do with them when the time comes to put the ramp out for a wheelchair,
I have currently noticed on staffed SWR stations the guard/TM has to put ramps out

and only sell single tickets (2 singles = a return)
Is this a case of putting the cart before the horse, ticket reform first?

thus ought to get some retail training/mobile device to assist the giving of a correct answer as well
the proverbial whose going to pay

The timescales of this seem somewhat confusing, is it one, two or three year? The mention of 2024 suggests to me that it is going to be rammed through before any election.

Regarding the ramps, I think all GWR trains have their own ramp stored on board these days so whilst that isn’t always ideal it certainly gives greater flexibility.

Not too much use on DOO services though, but for whatever reason Reading<>Basingstoke never made it into the DOO routes, whereas the nearby Reading<>Bedwyn service did.

: Bmblbzzz

: ChrisB

There's another good point/lesson there - not only will TO staff need retraining, but the likelihood of platform staff being asked these sort of questions about ticket validity will increase and thus ought to get some retail training/mobile device to assist the giving of a correct answer as well

And a general simplification of fares, restrictions and validities wouldn't hurt either.

That should absolutely be part of the process.

Saying "fares are complicated"is not an argument for perpetuating the current volume of ticket offices as some seem to think when only 12% of tickets are sold that way but it's very much part of making life easier for customers and indeed those assisting them on the concourses under the new arrangements, as well as ensuring that TVMs can issue the full range of tickets.

Surprisingly, it looks like one of the three stations we have here in Worcester has been spared the chop. https://www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk/travel-information/at-the-station/proposed-changes-ticket-offices says this of Worcester Foregate Street:
"This station will become one of our new retail and customer service hubs, meaning staff will be available throughout the week to assist with ticket purchases, as well as customer service, passenger assistance, safety and general upkeep duties".

I'm assuming that "retail and customer service hub" means there will still be ticket counters so, if so, it means that it will be the only station in the county of Worcestershire with a ticket counter.

I wouldn't make that assumption. I've just come out of a GWR consultation on Teams, and the bottom line is that all TOCs will close all traditional ticket offices over the next few years. However at major stations (such as Worcester Foregate St) there will be travel hubs, where someone will be on hand to show you how to buy a ticket on your smartphone

(couldn't find a 'tongue-in-cheek emoji)

My understanding is that this ....

: Red Squirrel

where someone will be on hand to show you how to buy a ticket on your smartphone

...is what all stations with a ticket office will offer going forward, while some larger stations become hubs that will retail all current tickets/railcards etc at ticket offices do now. Foregate Street will become one of thse.

Poll added to this thread - please take a look and respond

: ChrisB

My understanding is that this ....

: Red Squirrel

where someone will be on hand to show you how to buy a ticket on your smartphone

...is what all stations with a ticket office will offer going forward, while some larger stations become hubs that will retail all current tickets/railcards etc at ticket offices do now. Foregate Street will become one of thse.

Worcester Foregate Street is one station (Bath Spa is another) where a station concourse in a major tourist city centre station is situated substantially below the platforms, and having that concourse permanently staffed with a person or people in a single location makes complete sense.

: Bmblbzzz

: AMLAG

Ticket office staff are currently in an enclosed environment /room protected by a strong glass window for their safety and security, not only for themselves but for the security of sensitive customer transaction details and of course revenue /cash etc.

Many ticket office staff, will, as basically ‘floor walkers’, more easily become vulnerable to verbal and even physical abuse from ‘undesirable‘ customers and the less fit and able will find it hard work staying on their feet for most of their shift.

By all means Railway Management should (again) have the ability for ongoing reviews ( in consultation with local Union reps.) of ticket office staffing levels and hours, as was always done.

Good point, but I expect it would be dealt with by simply ending cash transactions.

Thinking about this again, surely the same problem already applies to train staff selling tickets? Especially on late-night services with empty carriages. Yet you don't hear of such incidents. There was (at least according to the press) an epidemic of onboard thefts known as "steaming" in the 1980s but it seems to have been passengers that were the victims (and offenders) rather than staff. And if it did happen, it's easier to call police etc to a station building than a moving train.

: grahame

Poll added to this thread - please take a look and respond

I've selected the first option however there's no reason why fares can't be simplified as part of this process rather than kicking it into the long grass.

GWR had a notice up at Bristol Parkway when I was there this morning. If the T/O changes go ahead as planned the opening times for the office there will be half an hour shorter in the morning and half an hour shorter in the evening but no changes at all otherwise.

Dave

: ChrisB

OOOh, this is getting a tad juicy. The ORR has stepped in with a letter to TOCs.....

Jacqui Russell
Head of Consumer Team

TOC MDs; and
TOC accessibility leads
[by email]
5 July 2023

Dear Industry Colleagues

Station ticket office reforms

Operators have today published consultations on proposals to make changes to the responsibilities of station staff and to close ticket offices. I am writing to provide an overview of a number potentially relevant regulatory considerations that may be helpful as you refine your plans, and to formally ask you to provide an initial high level review of your proposals against ORR’s Accessible Travel Policy (ATP) guidance.

Changes to ticket office opening hours

Changes to ticket office opening hours (including closures) are governed by the processes set out in the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement (TSA) and guidance published by the Department for Transport (DfT). Alongside, ORR has a long-term ongoing role in ensuring that passenger interests are protected in key areas, underpinned by licence requirements and consumer law. Under DfT’s guidance, any proposal to close a ticket office is considered to be a major change. Operators must publish details of their proposals, with passengers invited to make representations to Transport Focus (TF) and London TravelWatch (LTW). TF/LTW may then seek amendments to proposals from the operators. Should concerns remain they can raise an objection to the Secretary of State who will make a final decision.

Accessible Travel Policy review

All train and station operators must establish and comply with an ATP as a condition of their licence, setting out their provision for disabled passengers. ATPs must meet the detailed requirements set out in our guidance. While these requirements are particularly relevant to disabled people, such as the provision of assistance to travel, they can equally be applied more widely and, in this context, that includes requirements relating to ticketing and passenger information. The Annex extracts those aspects of the ATP guidance that are potentially relevant to changes to station staffing and ticket offices. To ensure that your ATP remains accurate for passengers and meets the requirements of the ATP guidance we are seeking an initial understanding of the areas where we believe that early engagement on changes will be helpful, including
where we can provide additional clarity or support in this process.

Your response should:
• Provide a high-level summary of the changes that you are proposing to make to ticket offices and station staffing.
• Identify any areas where you anticipate proposing changes to your ATP documents, and where possible outline what those changes would be.
• Identify any other changes that you propose to make at stations to ensure compliance with the ATP guidance, with particular reference to the areas identified in the Annex.

We do not expect to request or receive revised ATP documentation until there is more certainty over the changes that may be implemented. The process for revising ATPs will then follow the usual process. As part of this we will expect you to show how you have sought and considered feedback from local groups, and we will consult with DPTAC, Transport Focus and (where relevant) London TravelWatch where any material changes are proposed.

Please contact David Kimball (david.kimball@orr.gov.uk) if you have any queries. We will be inviting operators to a meeting to clarify ATP requirements and the review process, and to offer the opportunity to explore any questions you may
have. Please submit your response to ATP@orr.gov.uk by Friday 21 July.

I am copying this letter to RDG, DfT, Transport Focus, and London TravelWatch.

Yours sincerely
Jacqui Russell

The annex can be found as part of the pdf of this letter here

Fight!

This and the cross party roasting the Goverment got in Parliment yesterday; the Government were challanged over the short time given for public consultation indeed being accused of a rubber stamp excercise

Although the intent to close ticket offices is not out openly in the public realm, I feel there could be a much slower implementation, given the disconnect between the ORR and DfT on the process also the closures of the ticket offices next year will fall into the lead up to the next General Election, some Conservative MP's may be concerned on the local impact of the ticket office(s) in their constancies closing.

However in the longer term ticket offices will close, it may just get delayed ................. well it is the railways we are used to delays

If asked I am not sure I could construct a cogent argument against the Ticket Office closure proposals as long as the job is done properly.

Trouble is I have long regarded the DfT & RDG as institutionally incompetent.

For starters I don't think the proposals should be implemented unless and until a wholesale revision/simplification of the fares system, along the lines I have written elsewhere in this forum, has been completed.

Also I think the newly accessible Customer Service Agents should have tablets/notebooks which exactly mirror the capabilities of the existing ticket office workstations. What are the chances of that happening? And even if it did would all relevant sites have sufficient bandwidth to provide an acceptable level of service to intending passengers? (No buffering please!)

And I am absolutely convinced that the countrywide (?England) TVM infrastructure needs some serious attention; a common user interface would be a good idea.

I have just seen the following posted online:
Staff redundancies at the following stations:
Oxford - 22
Didcot - 10
Reading - 40
Paddington - 50.

If that is just ticket office staff then can I assume (given 2 shifts a day) that all t/o staff at those stations are being made redundant?

In which case who will be helping passengers buy tickets? Presumably cheaper and less knowledgeable ( about tickets) staff.

Sorry making a lot of assumptions, does anybody have the actual facts?

: ray951

I have just seen the following posted online:
Staff redundancies at the following stations:
Oxford - 22
Didcot - 10
Reading - 40
Paddington - 50.

If that is just ticket office staff then can I assume (given 2 shifts a day) that all t/o staff at those stations are being made redundant?

In which case who will be helping passengers buy tickets? Presumably cheaper and less knowledgeable ( about tickets) staff.

Sorry making a lot of assumptions, does anybody have the actual facts?

Those are from the bigger set of figures IndustryInsider posted two days ago. They still look very much unofficial to me, unless your source provides better evidence of its source.

: Electric train

This and the cross party roasting the Goverment got in Parliment yesterday; the Government were challenged over the short time given for public consultation indeed being accused of a rubber stamp exercise

As stated by ORR in that letter

Changes to ticket office opening hours (including closures) are governed by the processes set out in the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement (TSA) and guidance published by the Department for Transport (DfT).

This sets out that a consultation of 21 days is required to change hours in/close ticket offices. So this is set out in law & would require a law change in order to lengthen the period. Of course, the legislation is written to cover the odd, or just a few closures at a time, where 21 days could be considered adequate - not for mass closures on this scale!

: ray951

I have just seen the following posted online:
Staff redundancies at the following stations:
Oxford - 22
Didcot - 10
Reading - 40
Paddington - 50.

If that is just ticket office staff then can I assume (given 2 shifts a day) that all t/o staff at those stations are being made redundant?
In which case who will be helping passengers buy tickets? Presumably cheaper and less knowledgeable ( about tickets) staff.
Sorry making a lot of assumptions, does anybody have the actual facts?

The attached spreadsheet which was posted by II up thread (the validity of which is not proven) seems to bear out your figures.

However, there is/was? a promise of no forced redundancies until the end of 2024 (did that get extended to end 2025?), so perhaps a forecast of future plans depending on the number taking up a voluntary scheme.

I understand that there is a voluntary scheme as part of this package but there has yet been no comment from unions/staff or media that I've yet seen to confirm.

: ChrisB

: Electric train

This and the cross party roasting the Goverment got in Parliment yesterday; the Government were challenged over the short time given for public consultation indeed being accused of a rubber stamp exercise

As stated by ORR in that letter

Changes to ticket office opening hours (including closures) are governed by the processes set out in the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement (TSA) and guidance published by the Department for Transport (DfT).

This sets out that a consultation of 21 days is required to change hours in/close ticket offices. So this is set out in law & would require a law change in order to lengthen the period. Of course, the legislation is written to cover the odd, or just a few closures at a time, where 21 days could be considered adequate - not for mass closures on this scale!

The Act when set up was not designed with the intent of whole safe ticket office closure, the DfT are taking advantage of a loop hole

: stuving

: ray951

I have just seen the following posted online:
Staff redundancies at the following stations:
Oxford - 22
Didcot - 10
Reading - 40
Paddington - 50.

If that is just ticket office staff then can I assume (given 2 shifts a day) that all t/o staff at those stations are being made redundant?

In which case who will be helping passengers buy tickets? Presumably cheaper and less knowledgeable ( about tickets) staff.

Sorry making a lot of assumptions, does anybody have the actual facts?

Those are from the bigger set of figures IndustryInsider posted two days ago. They still look very much unofficial to me, unless your source provides better evidence of its source.

Sorry I dont know the original source for this data and I guess it is quite possible that it came from the same s/s as posted by II.

Here's the Rail Delivery Group's position;

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/uk-rail-industry/customer-focused-reform/customer-focused-stations?twclid=2-70sgupd2cdvi3u8uh11n840ah&s=09

: rogerw

TVMs do not sell the full range of tickets, and if you can purchase on line, often 7 days notice is required plus a postage fee.

Young people like me know how to store tickets on our phones or order online and pick up from the TVM, so avoiding delay and postage fees. I still have a plastic senior railcard, though.

: DaveHarries

GWR had a notice up at Bristol Parkway when I was there this morning. If the T/O changes go ahead as planned the opening times for the office there will be half an hour shorter in the morning and half an hour shorter in the evening but no changes at all otherwise.

Dave

That's not what their website says.
https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/Changes-to-Ticket-Retailing-at-GWR-Stations-v2.pdf

Bristol Parkway is on page 9 and says the following:

"Proposed changes - Oct 2023-Jun 2024

Colleagues move closer to customers in other locations at the station to
support and assist with ticket purchases. Ticket Office windows close."

: bleeder4

Colleagues move closer to customers in other locations at the station to
support and assist with ticket purchases. Ticket Office windows close."

Mick Lynch has been going on about ticket office staff getting redundancy notices. AIUI, that's because their current jobs cease to exist - the definition of redundancy in this context. If alternative roles are intended, they need to be agreed in each case and a new employment contract signed.

Obviously that's a very similar process to dismissing staff to reduce numbers, making it easy to talk about "what is really intended" and very hard to know what that actually is.

My understanding of this is that a statutory notice of possible redundancies has been issued to the unions as required by legislation in cases like this that has wholesale reorganisation. If all staff either accept the voluntary scheme offered or a new post, none are likely. No staff member has had any notice of redundancy at all.

Can anyone confirm that a voluntary redundancy scheme is there for any ticket office staff that want to avail themselves? I've seen indications of it, but no actual confirmation of a scheme existing.

There is a role in GWR for anyone who wants one.

It might not be a role they want, and in the future it will definitely mean a lower headcount.

Mick Whelan, ASLEF General Secretary tweeted this earlier....

There's also a petition running (since April, it seems?) to "Require train operators keep ticket offices and platform staff at train stations" - it has only reached just over 26,000 in that time.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

: ChrisB

My understanding of this is that a statutory notice of possible redundancies has been issued to the unions as required by legislation in cases like this that has wholesale reorganisation. If all staff either accept the voluntary scheme offered or a new post, none are likely. No staff member has had any notice of redundancy at all.

Can anyone confirm that a voluntary redundancy scheme is there for any ticket office staff that want to avail themselves? I've seen indications of it, but no actual confirmation of a scheme existing.

The term used in a reorg is "Displaced" which means the individual gets informed by their line manager they have not been identified in a post and are at risk of redundancy a close listed vacancy list with jobs on it which the individual can apply for.

Being displaced is an uncomfortable position to be in, I've been there in the past, managed to get a job each time one occasion it was a close run think with only days to go before the P45.

I suspect the new contract T&C's will not be as good as the current ones.

Petition signed

: Electric train

The term used in a reorg is "Displaced" which means the individual gets informed by their line manager they have not been identified in a post and are at risk of redundancy a close listed vacancy list with jobs on it which the individual can apply for.

Being displaced is an uncomfortable position to be in, I've been there in the past, managed to get a job each time one occasion it was a close run think with only days to go before the P45.

I suspect the new contract T&C's will not be as good as the current ones.

That's generally the idea. Reduced terms and conditions, possibly with mark time pay until the new lower wage (if ever) catches up with your existing current pay.
So staff numbers cut, wages cut, and those remaining having to do a lot more work at possibly extended hours.
(Has happened in my previous work).

35 votes in the poll I added within the thread in just a short time. On the history of votes here that makes it one of the topics that's of significant relevance to members - a high turnout.

I set the poll up with 5 statements of concern at what's being suggested and included a "none of the above" option as well. What is utterly amazing to me is that no-one - not even one member so far - has voted "none of the above". So that's 35 of you out of 35 share some concern and there I no-one saying (and in private because it's a secret poll) "hey - what a great idea".

This is a "consultation". I hope that the proposers of the idea take proper account of the inputs they receive and don't turn it just into a box-ticking exercise to say that they consulted.

Exceptionally, I am about to close the poll early; we may loose a very small number of straggler votes, but having now written a conclusion and expressed some thoughts, those straggler views and any changes might be unduly influenced by what I'm writing (yea, I know, I'm being big-headed). I have a call at 5 p.m. tonight on the subject of ticket office closures, and probably feedback and perhaps announcements including a further poll here, so opportunities still there for member input, not that an individual vote on the Coffee Shop would influence HM Government anyway!

: PhilWakely

: old original

Details of each station.....

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/Changes-to-Ticket-Retailing-at-GWR-Stations-v2.pdf

A brief run through does seem to show that ALL Ticket Offices will close by end of 2024

Interesting comment at the bottom of each notice..........

*- Date changes to Advance Purchase tickets will not be possible after windows are closed

I guess that will ultimately mean that NO Advance tickets will be sold 'at the station'

If it’s anything like the London Underground ticket office closures, anything exotic or unusual will be impossible. Staff at a station I use quite a bit said the ticket machines in the offices were physically removed. Thus meaning they can’t help people who need something the machine in the hall can’t sell/refund even if we want to.

TravelWatch SouthWest ... I had a really useful Zoom session with Bryony a couple of hours ago (yes, on a Sunday!). This post shared here to invite members to sign up via EventBrite to the TravelWatch SouthWest sessions.

Dear Members

Proposal to Close Ticket Offices
On the 5th of July stark headlines stated, “train operators plan to close all ticket offices in England”. Proposals to close ticket offices affect the majority of rail station ticket offices in England and this will alter the existing available ticket purchasing experience in our region.

The Proposals are open to comments for 21 days and these must be made through either Transport Focus or London TravelWatch (Statutory Consultees, as set out under the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement). All thirteen operators are running consultations. The responses are being organised by operator and station. Time is already running and the deadline for submissions on 26th July 2023.

Will it affect you or those in your community?

Transport Focus are the consultees relevant to most of our members, exclusively providing feedback for stations outside the London TravelWatch zone.

We want to help members provide useful responses. Many communities are concerned by the proposals and TWSW are here to assist organisation of thoughts, share questions and intelligence.

At short notice, we have arranged three meetings for discussing and supporting submission of evidence to the Ticket Office Closure Consultation via Transport Focus.

Tuesday 11th July 8pm – 9 pm
Wednesday 12th July 7 pm – 8 pm
Friday 14th July 1 pm – 2 pm

By offering three online meeting opportunities, we hope everyone will find a suitable time to join us for some or all events. Please register online through Eventbrite. Here is the link to register for all or one of the sessions https://www.eventbrite.com/cc/twsw-ticket-office-closure-consultation-2382509.

Let me know if this poses a problem and I will arrange your ticket from this end.

Best wishes

Bryony

Bryony Chetwode
Company Secretary TravelWatch SouthWest CIC

Booked for Wednesday evening

: grahame

TravelWatch SouthWest ... I had a really useful Zoom session with Bryony a couple of hours ago (yes, on a Sunday!). This post shared here to invite members to sign up via EventBrite to the TravelWatch SouthWest sessions.

Dear Members

Proposal to Close Ticket Offices
On the 5th of July stark headlines stated, “train operators plan to close all ticket offices in England”. Proposals to close ticket offices affect the majority of rail station ticket offices in England and this will alter the existing available ticket purchasing experience in our region.

The Proposals are open to comments for 21 days and these must be made through either Transport Focus or London TravelWatch (Statutory Consultees, as set out under the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement). All thirteen operators are running consultations. The responses are being organised by operator and station. Time is already running and the deadline for submissions on 26th July 2023.

Will it affect you or those in your community?

Transport Focus are the consultees relevant to most of our members, exclusively providing feedback for stations outside the London TravelWatch zone.

We want to help members provide useful responses. Many communities are concerned by the proposals and TWSW are here to assist organisation of thoughts, share questions and intelligence.

At short notice, we have arranged three meetings for discussing and supporting submission of evidence to the Ticket Office Closure Consultation via Transport Focus.

Tuesday 11th July 8pm – 9 pm
Wednesday 12th July 7 pm – 8 pm
Friday 14th July 1 pm – 2 pm

By offering three online meeting opportunities, we hope everyone will find a suitable time to join us for some or all events. Please register online through Eventbrite. Here is the link to register for all or one of the sessions https://www.eventbrite.com/cc/twsw-ticket-office-closure-consultation-2382509.

Let me know if this poses a problem and I will arrange your ticket from this end.

Best wishes

Bryony

Bryony Chetwode
Company Secretary TravelWatch SouthWest CIC

Anyone yet had the link for the zoom meeting tonight at 8pm?....coz I've registered & haven't received anything yet. I have had a reminder from Eventbrite but it's not there either....

(EDIT) Found it - log into your Eventbrite account & go to the event page for the session you have registered for. In very small type, it says "Open in Zoom". Click on that 30mins beforehand or less

: ChrisB

Anyone yet had the link for the zoom meeting tonight at 8pm?....coz I've registered & haven't received anything yet. I have had a reminder from Eventbrite but it's not there either....

(EDIT) Found it - log into your Eventbrite account & go to the event page for the session you have registered for. In very small type, it says "Open in Zoom". Click on that 30mins beforehand or less

Meeting links out about an hour before the meeting.

Good meeting tonight ... around 20 people there. I will try and summarise after the whole series

There was a figure given either in this or the other thread that only 12% of tickets are now sold from ticket offices. Where did that come from? I can't find it now. And is there a breakdown for the remaining 88% between TVMs, online, and on-train?

: Bmblbzzz

There was a figure given either in this or the other thread that only 12% of tickets are now sold from ticket offices. Where did that come from? I can't find it now. And is there a breakdown for the remaining 88% between TVMs, online, and on-train?

You also need to consider that not all stations have ticket offices, and those that do the office is rarely open all day so quite often it isn't actually possible to buy from a t/o.

: Bmblbzzz

There was a figure given either in this or the other thread that only 12% of tickets are now sold from ticket offices. Where did that come from? I can't find it now. And is there a breakdown for the remaining 88% between TVMs, online, and on-train?

It's from the Rail Delivery Group

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/proposals-to-update-the-railway-for-how-passengers-use-it-today

: TaplowGreen

: Bmblbzzz

There was a figure given either in this or the other thread that only 12% of tickets are now sold from ticket offices. Where did that come from? I can't find it now. And is there a breakdown for the remaining 88% between TVMs, online, and on-train?

It's from the Rail Delivery Group

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/proposals-to-update-the-railway-for-how-passengers-use-it-today

And there’s more detailed GWR station by station stats here:

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/Changes-to-Ticket-Retailing-at-GWR-Stations-v2.pdf

Whatever you do, please don't confuse the idea of "consulting" with "asking for your opinion". There may be a couple of token reversals, but the decision has been made and the ticket offices will close.

This morning, I had a vision of what trying to buy a train ticket will soon be like................

A few months ago Morrisons closed about half of the remaining proper checkouts in my local store and replaced them with an Amazon "office" - and a couple more self serve checkouts. This morning out of 14 self-serve checkouts in the store only 2 were working. The 3 "colleagues" there were reduced to vainly trying to organise a growing queue of not very happy shoppers.

: IndustryInsider

: TaplowGreen

: Bmblbzzz

There was a figure given either in this or the other thread that only 12% of tickets are now sold from ticket offices. Where did that come from? I can't find it now. And is there a breakdown for the remaining 88% between TVMs, online, and on-train?

It's from the Rail Delivery Group

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/proposals-to-update-the-railway-for-how-passengers-use-it-today

And there’s more detailed GWR station by station stats here:

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/Changes-to-Ticket-Retailing-at-GWR-Stations-v2.pdf

Thanks. Huge variation! And interesting to note that some of the stations with ticket office sales listed, don't actually have ticket offices as such.

At Crowthorne, it is claimed that 98.6% of bookings are bought through a non-existent TVM!

: TaplowGreen

: Bmblbzzz

There was a figure given either in this or the other thread that only 12% of tickets are now sold from ticket offices. Where did that come from? I can't find it now. And is there a breakdown for the remaining 88% between TVMs, online, and on-train?

It's from the Rail Delivery Group

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/proposals-to-update-the-railway-for-how-passengers-use-it-today

: Oxonhutch

At Crowthorne, it is claimed that 98.6% of bookings are bought through a non-existent TVM!

After all, facts are facts, and although we may quote one to another with a chuckle the words of the Wise Statesman, "Lies - damn lies - and statistics," Benjamin Disraeli, British Prime Minister.

The UK Government of a certain rosette colour are known for doing passenger use surveys at the time and places they know will give them their best result, allegedly its how the Beeching Report got is passenger use data

At Crowthorne, it is claimed that 98.6% of bookings are bought through a non-existent TVM▸ !

Is that right? I checked the GWR website, which says that it does have machines.

Having commuted through this station most working days for about 20 years before retirement I cannot recall ever seeing one (but it might not be visible from a train). The Steetview of the station from the car park indicates a shelter for one at the northern (left-hand) end of the attached extract that might be one.

I am sure Stuving will know.......!

: eightonedee

I am sure Stuving will know.......!

Now, why would I want to go to Crowthorne? And if I did, why would I want to buy a ticket there???

There was a figure given either in this or the other thread that only 12% of tickets are now sold from ticket offices. Where did that come from? I can't find it now. And is there a breakdown for the remaining 88% between TVMs, online, and on-train?

It's from the Rail Delivery Group

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/proposals-to-update-the-railway-for-how-passengers-use-it-today

And there’s more detailed GWR station by station stats here:

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/Changes-to-Ticket-Retailing-at-GWR-Stations-v2.pdf

Thanks. Huge variation! And interesting to note that some of the stations with ticket office sales listed, don't actually have ticket offices as such.

I think what I found surprising about the station by station figures was that a lot of larger stations (ie Bath, Bristol TM and Parkway, Cheltenham, Oxford) where there are larger ticket offices at the moment and you'd perhaps expect to be retained as "hubs" are tracking below, in some cases well below 12%, and other larger stations such as Exeter, Swindon, Taunton are only just above this figure.

More widespread availability of advance fares from larger stations, so people ~~more~~ less likely to buy a walk on fare?

In The Grauniad online & probably in tomorrow's print edition

Lindsay Hoyle says rail minister misinformed on ticket office closures
Commons speaker intervenes as MPs and unions challenge government plans to close offices across England

The government has been challenged in the Commons over plans to close railway ticket offices, including by the speaker, who told the rail minister that he was being misinformed by train operators.

Labour described the consultation over the proposals to close most ticket offices in England as a “sham” and Conservative MPs also raised concerns, as unions staged demonstrations around the country.

The rail minister, Huw Merriman, sought to reassure MPs over what he said were industry-led proposals to cut costs, with revenue falling after the pandemic.

Merriman said he believed that staff were better deployed on station concourses rather than “behind a glass screen”, adding: “I give the commitment again from the train operators that no currently staffed station will become unstaffed as a result of these changes.”

The comment prompted an unusual intervention from the Commons speaker, Sir Lindsay Hoyle, who highlighted issues in his Chorley constituency.

Sir Lindsay Hoyle told Merriman that at Chorley “the proposal is only to have someone available nine until four, which is half the time the ticket office was [open] … What you are being told isn’t the case.”

The Conservative MP Gagan Mohindra read out a constituent’s email, warning: “By closing the ticket office, you have taken away a focal point of contact. Can the minister reassure us both that those that need assistance will be able to easily locate staff?”

Last week, a number of Conservative MPs highlighted the use of ticket offices at their local stations, while the transport committee chair, Ian Stewart, said there was “alarming evidence” that assistance for vulnerable passengers had declined since the pandemic.

The shadow transport secretary, Louise Haigh, said: “The minister has managed to unite concerns from Labour MPs, his own backbenches, you, Mr Speaker, disability groups, trade unions and consumer groups about these closures.”

She said the consultation was “a sham”, with “just 21 days for people to voice their concerns. No equality impact assessment and no answers on job security, on accessibility, on digital ticketing.”

Campaigners for people with disabilities have protested at the consultation. Sight loss charities including the Thomas Pocklington Trust and the Royal National Institute of Blind People wrote to ministers this week urging a longer period to respond and warning that neither printed nor online forms provided for the consultation were accessible for many blind or partially sighted people.

Elsewhere, unions said plans to close ticket offices were a “fig leaf for redundancies”, as they held dozens of protests outside stations across England on Thursday.

The Transport Salaried Staffs’ Association also took issue with government figures claiming that only 13% of tickets were bought at ticket offices, which it said did not take into account the true impact, including season tickets.

The union’s interim general secretary, Peter Pendle, said the numbers it had uncovered “demonstrate that ticket offices are as popular and vital to the railways as ever”.

He said: “They talk of 13% as though it were a low figure when in fact it relates to hundreds of millions of rail journeys. Talk of modernisation is merely a fig leaf for redundancies and what would be a poorer service for the travelling public at large.”

The Rail Delivery Group, representing train operators, has pledged that there will be more staff outside at stations, and that those with accessibility needs will always be supported, but has insisted that nearly all tickets and services can be bought or accessed online or at machines.

: IndustryInsider

More widespread availability of advance fares from larger stations, so people ~~more~~ less likely to buy a walk on fare?

And people more likely to be using these stations as the start of a longer journey, so more likely to be planned further in advance.

: Bmblbzzz

: IndustryInsider

More widespread availability of advance fares from larger stations, so people ~~more~~ less likely to buy a walk on fare?

And people more likely to be using these stations as the start of a longer journey, so more likely to be planned further in advance.

Yes, that's tied in with my comment and I think it will certainly play a part.

I watched Reading ticket office for ten minutes or so minutes the other day. Dozens of people served in that short period. Scheduled to close at the end of next year.